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To our faithful listeners,

We've decided to formally shutdown thesixtyone.com -- our servers will go offline at midnight, May 1st 2017.

Artist tipping and music purchases will be functional until then, so please spend any remaining credits by month's end. 
A final payment will be made to artists following the shutdown.

thesixtyone was our baby for most of our twenties. We're incredibly sorry we weren't able to keep things going in the 
right direction.

2007-2017

Thank you for being a part of it.

Farewell,

James Miao & Samuel Hsiung
Topic:

Leaderboard adjustments [locked]


supergrover
level 37
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 18 mar 08 7:50 p.m.
The artists are both customer AND product... yet another hurdle to market has been brought. It's curious, I tell you.

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Keith Warren
level 8
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 18 mar 08 8:56 p.m.
I'm beginning to wonder if the RIAA is twirling their fingers in this site... it seems like everything always goes smooth until they show up.

Anywho, my point got cut in half and I got downed almost 2 levels. I've only been on here a week, and I'm grateful for having gotten as far as I did, but I'm really bummed to have it all taken away. I'd really like to know what "metadata" we're talking about here. If there's a proven way to calculate this stuff, I'm all for it, but if it's constant trial and error, I'm not sure I agree with it. Error or success.

Keith Warren

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ImOnlySleeping
level 39
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 18 mar 08 9:04 p.m.
So, in short, it looks like the change benefits artists with broad appeal rather than a rabid fan base.

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Fit and the Conniptions
level 15
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 18 mar 08 9:15 p.m.
Just seconding everyone pointing out that this is a normalisation rather than anything else - some artists have gained and some have lost and my bet is that more have gained than lost. As for me, my points total just nearly doubled from 159 to 318, after being totally and completely dormant for more than a month. With no-one bumping me or - so far as I can tell - listening to me, the chances of ever getting to upload another song were looking pretty slim. I can understand that people who have lost points this way are bummed but I think a lot of us who have been stuck in limbo for some while with no way of getting unstuck are pleasantly surprised. In the end, the guys running the place are still trying to work out rules for what is not an easy or indeed particularly fair game for anyone at the best of times.

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TejozListens
level 33
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 18 mar 08 11:42 p.m.
where's the reply from motty?
it said it on the headlines

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CheGriffin
level 17
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 18 mar 08 11:56 p.m.
look closely at Fit and the Conniptions' username.

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TejozListens
level 33
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 12:01 a.m.
ouuuuuuuuuuuu hahahahaha its on his page adresss
thx chef

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todash
level 39
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 12:05 a.m.
Bump ecology gains complexity. Great music remains the same.

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Freestar Tammas
level 10
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 2:02 a.m.
Well I just lost a third of my points and almost an entire level so I am really really sad. I have to do level 6 all over again and that SUCKS. I have no idea why I was penalized like that...all I did was go to sleep and wake up again to find a third of my points gone.

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supergrover
level 37
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 3:55 a.m.
Bump ecology gains complexity. Great music remains the same.

It's just now a shitload harder for the bands to get anything new uploaded. Restrictions on upload quantity based on levels and then rework of the level system, affecting many negatively, makes it where it will be even loooooooonger to get a new Levi Weaver track or a new Glenn Case track or a new JuEl (spelling?) track, etc...

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supergrover
level 37
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 3:59 a.m.
Am I correct in thinking that the Goo Goo Dolls would outrank REM or The Pixies in this new system?

\I'm sure someone could come up with a more apt comparison, but I think the point is made.

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supergrover
level 37
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 4 a.m.
Am I correct in thinking that the Goo Goo Dolls would outrank REM or The Pixies in this new system?

\I'm sure someone could come up with a more apt comparison, but I think the idea is right.

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supergrover
level 37
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 4:01 a.m.
cool. I'm arpkane.

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iyzie
level 44
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 4:51 a.m.
Well, for every stuck Levi Weaver, there's a Fit and Conniptions who's getting a new chance.

I agree with ImOnlySleeping's evaluation. The new point system is in fact reducing the power of individual listeners and megabumping, but increasing the relative power of large listener-bases. That does not sound like a net negative to me.

Let me ask the artists - Would you rather have 10 listeners who *love* your music or 100 listeners who like to listen to it?

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Sky Flying By
level 25
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 5:10 a.m.
@iyzie
"Let me ask the artists - Would you rather have 10 listeners who *love* your music or 100 listeners who like to listen to it?"

good question, very good question. not an easy one to answer. i think it goes to what each individual has for their own objectives when it comes to producing music.

there are some artists whose motivation is to gather large fan bases, move units, book lots of gigs, and make a dent in the industry.

then there are other artists whose motivation is to just share their craft with a few people here and there, and aren't interested in big numbers.

neither approach is wrong or less interesting... and i suppose i fall somewhere in the latter, but sees the former as something interesting as well.

but as far as 61 is concerned, i don't think i was one of those artists who was "stuck" (i was regularly getting 3-5 bumps a day, while not an avalanche of support, it was enough to keep things interesting) so this re-normalizing has "helped" me, i am still dubious of this re-normalization for those other artists who had their points reduced. But as a long time software engineer (my day job) I can understand the benefit, it offers a lot more flexibility within the data model that's for sure. Now they aren't coupled to any one piece of data in calculating scores or positions.

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supergrover
level 37
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 5:16 a.m.
Would you rather have 10 listeners who *love* your music or 100 listeners who like to listen to it?

That's a strawman. Of course any artist would prefer to have a large fan base, but that's not relevant here. These rule changes aren't going to suddenly cause a 40% increase in fanbase for bands if they just don't fit the preferences of t61 listener base.
I'm not going to start digging on YCD or CJizzle because Chris Merritt isn't able to upload any more songs.

As a listener, I couldn't care less about a level assigned to a band... but it does suck that it gets even harder for some artists to present new material here.

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supergrover
level 37
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 5:18 a.m.
But as a long time software engineer (my day job) I can understand the benefit, it offers a lot more flexibility within the data model that's for sure. Now they aren't coupled to any one piece of data in calculating scores or positions.
It appears the artist points are formulaic/calculated and not a hard field that is increased each time a new bump/point is earned. Shame, if it were the other way the artist wouldn't have to lose the points during a recalc.

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FlashG
level 13
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 5:35 a.m.
Well....they could tell us what the rules are...or at least respond to all the concerns. Basically, by under valuing multiple bumps, they just got rid of the advantage of having a higher listening level. Sure I can bump more, but they don't count anymore in helping get another song from that artist. They only cost me points. Why would I ever bump a song twice? My motivation was to support an artist and get more songs from them. That's gone, so my only motivation now would be to "play the point game" ie to get more points. Why do that? Points aren't cash, and they now aren't even influence.

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iyzie
level 44
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 5:54 a.m.
@FlashG - I don't think the power of megabumps has been removed - merely reduced. Your x13 is still enough to bet a song posted on the activity page, or boost a song up the Hot list a step or two, all of which will reflect positively on the song's position and the artist's standing.

@supergrover - I completely disagree that my question is a strawman. As Sky Flying By points out, different artists have different motivations - and perhaps even the same artist has conflicting motivations, and I am interested in hearing those thoughts. With respect, I believe your counter-argument is more of a strawman. You're absolutely right I'm not going to start listening to Schlongimmense if I can't get more hot bitch arsenal tomorrow. But what I *am* more likely to do is explore the trip-hop genre more deeply to find lesser known groups if I need my fix.

Plus if I am desperate for more Jet Set Satellite, for example, I will mount a campaign on my wall/profile page/tunebox, and the Max Bumps forum to gain bumps and more _listeners_ for the group/song of interest. t61's advantage and resource is its user base and the interactivity of listeners _and_ artists.

All that said, I completely sympathize with the feelings of being blindsided and the loss of position/points for some of the artists.

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FlashG
level 13
Re: Leaderboard adjustments | 19 mar 08 6:49 a.m.
But I still don't know what bump influence I have, because they don't tell me the new rules. And they could change retroactively to nothing if they decide to do that. I thought this was about people liking songs, and maybe getting influence to have their liking songs acquire more clout. You're telling me it's going to be more about me starting a pr campaign....more influence for the backroom deals. Argh. I'm too p*ssed off right now to bump anything. I thought bumps was how you were supposed to promote songs you like. As far as being desperate to hear new songs...I go to their myspace and buy them, because here won't let them put up more (not really sure why....they say it isn't about memory)

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