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AnnieB
level 43
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 2:22 p.m.
I really like the actions taking place and am always curious to see how things play out.

And I agree about multibumping old songs. I really would like the lock to be removed for songs that are neither on the homepage nor on the rack because how else are we supposed to get songs that are nearly a month old into the hands of the rest of the 61ers? It definitely makes rallying for support much more difficult and almost a futile effort to create those underrated/overlooked playlists many of us have done. I mean, are we not being adventurous in that sense as well? Not all adventures occur on the Rack. It also occurs from sifting through other listener's playlists and stumbling upon their profile pages.

Otherwise, there should be some central databank to place these songs in so that they're in plain site for any 61er after they've garnered a certain amount of bumps/listeners to even out the field, because I honestly don't even know how or what random song gets placed on the Rack.

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AnnieB
level 43
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 2:23 p.m.
forgive the many typos

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tedrock
level 31
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 2:27 p.m.
Here Here!
I like this development alot.

I also second the call for an unlock on songs over X days old.
(7 days? 10 days?)

Let's play with some new rules!!!!!
YeeHaw

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petiejoe
level 36
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 2:27 p.m.
Another vote for allowing multi-bumps on old songs - not sure what the definition of "old" would be.

I like this idea in general, though. Glad to see that you guys are paying attention when we're asking for resolution to this points "problem."

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shayborg
level 36
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 2:34 p.m.
You do need to be careful about the definition of "old" -- if it's exactly X many days, I could imagine a rush on the songs uploaded exactly X days ago though this would still be better because presumably the popular songs already would have lots of bumps.

Also I just started bumping a song from the Rack as it was ending and after it ended I couldn't bump it any more. I guess that's unavoidable, and I could have just stopped it...

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clemenstimpler
level 15
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 2:41 p.m.
I believe 'old' may be calculated in weeks rather than days - this would help with your problem. The point of multi-bumping old songs is rather to do justice to what you may call 'sleeper'-tracks - music that escaped attention when it was uploaded but that could make it to the homepage as soon as it is discovered by 'true fans'. And if somebody really takes the trouble to mark 'multi-bumping'-days in his private to-do list that is a kind of enthusiasm which may well be rewarded ;)

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petiejoe
level 36
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 2:42 p.m.
I think that the time would allow a bit of a cool-off period, so there wouldn't be as much of an issue. Maybe they could make the time shorter or longer depending on how many bumps it currently has so that people won't just camp that magic spot? The problem was that it was a positive feedback loop, where bumping the song got it more attention, got it more bumps. I think that the concept of that feedback loop is somewhat intentional, but it was a bit too amplified. This is a good way to reduce the amplification enough to make it more manageable. Of course, now the camping will probably move to the "new" page, but then at least the dedicated people listening to all the incoming songs on browse get the advantage that they really do deserve - they're sorting through the good and not-so-good songs. Perhaps the point rewards should drastically drop off if you bump it after it hits the front page compared with before the front page?

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shayborg
level 36
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 2:46 p.m.
<<< Perhaps the point rewards should drastically drop off if you bump it after it hits the front page compared with before the front page? >>>

It kind of already does work that way - in general 1 bump very early gets more rewards than 10 after it's been posted (when it already has hundreds of bumps).

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iwoo
level 14
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 2:52 p.m.
Gotta agree with Annie.... she makes the point I was about to bring up. For instance, I bumped some songs I really loved when I first started on the site. Those points were very "expensive" relative to my low level and low point income.

A month later, and some of the songs haven't gone anywhere, but I still really enjoy the songs. With my higher level, I can now afford to multibump like I wanted to and hopefully give the songs another chance at being spotted on my profile by subscribers or random listeners.

The rack is great for starting out, but my method of finding new music I would like has evolved. I subscribe to those that I notice bump the same tracks I do. (ie: have similar tastes)

It's developed into a more conversational and engaging method of discovery, where I get to talk about what I find—-or hear sincere recommendations. I have much higher odds of discovering something new to me, and that I'd like than passively waiting for something to catch my attention on the homepage or rack.

I guess it is always going to be a balancing act between the game aspect and how individuals prefer discovering new music; or even if they care to interact with other users at all.

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moosebumps
level 16
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 3:07 p.m.
I fully back the recent changes and second the elder song adjusta-bump ideas.

Perhaps these changes will keep things fair and the browse functionality can revert and deliver us directly to the newest tracks?

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birdman
level 37
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 3:32 p.m.
I think this whole thing just moves the bumping competition from the Browse page to the New page. I vote for the multibumps after a period of time wheter or not they hit the homepage. If not, we would never be able to give a boost to bands that are not very popular right away.

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djcambomb
level 11
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 3:37 p.m.
ok this is ridiculous. Only being able to bump songs that are in the rack or home page is the dumbest thing you could have done. How are unknown artists suppose to get popular if you won't let others who love their work really try to push them to the fore front? Terrible idea...

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Clinkz
level 16
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 3:56 p.m.
Did you even read the original post?

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Jared
level 17
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 4:08 p.m.
I agree with everyone who suggested lifting the multi-bump ban after a period of time (1 day?).

Even better would be some sort of progressive multi-bumping logic: You can bump once until the song hits 10 bumps, then you can bump twice until 15, then three times until 20, etc. This way it allows everyone a chance to get in on the early bumping, while still allowing the song to gain some momentum.

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shayborg
level 36
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 4:13 p.m.
<<< Even better would be some sort of progressive multi-bumping logic: You can bump once until the song hits 10 bumps, then you can bump twice until 15, then three times until 20, etc. This way it allows everyone a chance to get in on the early bumping, while still allowing the song to gain some momentum. >>>

Ooh, I like this concept. Allows for some "snowballing". You'd probably need to change the thresholds a little bit but it would be an improvement IMO.

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lankysob
level 41
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 4:15 p.m.
That's actually a great idea, Jared. It assures that songs CAN gain momentum. Especially since I don't know 150 different people on here in order to tunebox the same song to them pleading for them give their 1 bump to it in order to get it to the homepage. Your idea still allows for support to be shown quickly and in relatively small chunks.

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grammaslamma
level 12
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 4:25 p.m.
Spammming users via the Tunebox isn't exactly an approach that's going to work as this site grows. I think we should give this new system its fair chance (say 1 week) before making any verdicts. It's interesting that mostly top listeners have had negative reactions to this change...you guys have this "guilty before proven innocent" mentality.

Give it time.

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lankysob
level 41
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 5:09 p.m.
@grammaslamma
Spamming users via the Tunebox isn't even something I'd consider doing. That was a tongue-in-cheek comment that was merely what I imagined would happen due to things I've experienced recently (and maybe you have, too):

Being near the top of the list means I've received more than my share of "help me bump this to the homepage" or "come check out my band" Tuneboxes since my profile is easier to find on the listener's leaderboard than others may be (and believe me, that's not gloating by any stretch - merely a statement of fact). Feel free to dislike me for it and group me in with others anyways, if you like.

-----

It's already clear to me that these changes lean the61 back towards why it was created: the music (well there's an obvious statement). "Handicapping" the points system places the emphasis back towards discovering music you truly love and takes it away from bumping the hell out of anything that moves (which I've been a culprit of lately, too). Hey, I love games that involve earning magical, mystery points as much as the next guy... But I love finding new music, interacting with bands and 'feeling almighty' because I've heard of a small local band on the opposite side of the country before a non the61-er. =)

I'm more than willing to evolve with the site as it does the same. I've already left James a comment on his wall carrying the gist of what I've said here, and look forward to what the future holds. I mean, this place IS only a few months old. It's already changed a lot in the month that I've been here so it's safe to assume that that trend will continue as more users sign up and bring new, fresh ideas with them on how to make this the best damn site on all the Intertubes.

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james
level 21
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 5:40 p.m.
@ jared: we actually had a point milestone system when we first released thesixtyone. it's something we're going to take a nice, hard look at as we monitor activity over the next few weeks.

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phreakymonkey
level 34
Re: Bump Multipliers & The Rack | 11 jan 08 6:07 p.m.
In response to the arguments that this is unfair to less popular songs...

The bump costs already change based on what order you bump them in, how popular the artist's previous songs have been, and other factors. What about adding a time variable to this so that the point cost of less popular songs slowly decays as weeks go by? That would likely encourage people to take more chances on more niche stuff that maybe they are interested in but are less inclined to sink points into with little likelihood of a return. They still have to hit the bump threshold to make the front page, though, so there wouldn't be any real advantage per se. Seems like it would encourage people to branch out a little more without the side-effect of My Cunting Daughter's entire catalog suddenly popping up on the front page.

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